*NEW* ALLIGATOR GAR RESTRICTIONS FOR TX BOWFISHERMEN - Page 2

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Thread: *NEW* ALLIGATOR GAR RESTRICTIONS FOR TX BOWFISHERMEN

  1. #41
    Redfish
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    I'm with you. That's the first think I seen in the transcript. The part about the gaps from 2007 year class fish till now. Of course we're not taking that year class, we only get 1 a day. We have to pass all those to get the bigger ones. But they are at fault for that, not us.
    Of course we know also that the age is crazy on these fish. When you can put two 6 footers side by side and one will be 5-10 and the other will be 40 yrs old. Either they method of aging is wrong or the growth rate is whacked. Either way, no one can honestly guess the age of a fish by length.

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  3. #42
    Redfish
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    TWA? you talking about a water authority?

  4. #43
    Silver Carp
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    Texas Wildlife Association

  5. #44
    Silver Carp
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    I have kind of been out of the Texas loop for the last couple of years but I know for the past several decades, most of the TPW commissioners were board members or members of the TWA.

  6. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Two Guns View Post
    Allan, they say Lousiana can't produce a gator gar over 4'.
    How can I prove they are wrong. How can we show them that LA
    has plenty 6, 7 and 8 footers too?

    They don't want to be like LA but us sportsmen want us to be exactly like LA.
    You can take catfish, redfish and alligator gar. Texas is about to go three for three.
    Screw it, I'm just gonna move.
    tony,give me a call an i will explain to you how we had to deal with this same situation.

  7. #46
    There is some great reading here (entertaining as well as informative) from the perspective of the man who owns Falcon Lake Tackle.

    http://www.tackleandrods.com/lake/flash.htm

  8. #47
    Chainsaw Willy
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    Quote Originally Posted by steven View Post
    Me
    To dan.bennett@tpwd.texas.gov



    Today at 12:22 PM






    Mr. Bennett,



    I have just read the transcript from the November 2013 Commissioner's meeting. I remember from talking to you years ago (in the middle of the one alligator gar per day debate) that you have a genuine interest in doing the right thing for having a sustainable alligator gar population in TX. What I read in the transcript was a bunch of half facts and skewed statistics used to push an anti bowfishing agenda.



    Its pretty obvious that these gator gar populations are independent of each other. Sure some of the gar that live downstream of dams of each river system might go out into the bay, but a gar that lives in the lower Trinity isn't going to swim out into the bay, along the coast and up into the Sabine drainage. You and I both know this, and they flat out said it in the meeting, they are different populations.

    Hypothetically....IF the gator gar population in say, the Neches was declining, then they should look into regulation of harvest for that water body, not a blanket regulation for the entire state. To me that's like shutting of mule deer hunting in West Texas because they couldn't locate any in the pineywoods. I believe that a blanket law for the entire state banning their harvest by bow would only make things worse in river systems such as the Trinity, where the gar are already at their maximum sustainable level.



    At the very least, it seems to make sense scientifically that this should be tabled until more studies can be done not only for each waterbody, but also until the impacts of them no longer being able to be commercially harvested can be measured.



    Thank you for your time,

    Steven Sallee



    I can promise you, if I thought that the gator gar fishery was in trouble, I would be the first one pushing for some type of regulation to help them rebound.
    He's on face book also

  9. #48
    Pond Scum
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    I called one of the game wardens in texas and he says he hasnt heard of any changes for this year but dont be surprised if some come.

  10. #49
    Chainsaw Willy
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    yep photo Screenshot_2014-01-29-21-53-58_zpskybqwmty.png...

  11. #50
    Hoopty's Special someone
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    Those liberalizations may be so "slow to come" that they are non existent. Those commissioners will do whatever they are politically or emotionally motivated to do regardless of facts. Where was their evidence that bowfishing was hurting the catfish population to the point they needed to cut it off? There wasn't any.....Where was their evidence that the gator gar population was so dismal that TX needed a blanket regulation to one a day for every water body in the state? There wasn't any. Why now are they wanting to hear statements that would help regulate gator gar harvest even more, only a few years after limits were imposed and commercial fishing for them was all but eliminated? They haven't even had time to determine if their last legislation has had an impact or not. They have been so anti bowfishing the last several years that even a rumor of a rumor of more regulations should have us up in arms.

  12. #51
    nets catch 10 times more gator gar than bowfishers do you have netting seasons in texas?

  13. #52
    Redfish
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    nope snake as far as i know netting of any kind is outlawed.

    could be wrong though.

  14. #53
    we aren't even allowed to pee in the water down here cause the "splash" is harmful to the fish. We have to dip our foot in the water and let it run down our leg.

  15. #54
    Silver Carp
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    It appears spawn protection is the agenda they are saying this is about. My argument was the spawn is a two or sometimes three day event, and I never catch it. So with current regs (1 per day), a very lucky individual who happened to be at the right place at the right time may harvest a couple of fish. Of course, law breakers could do some damage but they are going to do it regardless and I think they are a small minority.

    Here is the reply I got to my message:

    Mr. Bynum,

    Thank you for your informed and thoughtful comments regarding alligator gar management in Texas. We especially appreciate the solution-oriented critiques that you offered. Your interest in alligator gar conservation and the unique angling opportunities that they present is shared by our staffs in the Inland Fisheries Division. Many of us are engaged in alligator gar research and recreation, having experienced the memorable thrill of close encounters with these fish.

    Our Commission has concerns about anglers harvesting these fish when they are most vulnerable (i.e. when conditions are right to trigger/support spawning). They have asked us to investigate options for providing greater protection for alligator gar during their spawning activity. At their request, we are currently considering various options. Once we settle on a proposal, we will seek public input on this proposal through various feedback formats (e.g. public hearings, an online comment tool, and by direct contact with staff). I'd be happy to provide you with a detailed list of hearing dates and locations as soon as those are set (most will be on weekday evenings in March). I encourage you to express your opinions through one or more of those formats.

    I would like to correct an error on our part for the record. There was an error in Dan Daugherty's response to a question by Commissioner Moran, during the Q&A after his briefing on November 7th, 2013. Dan spoke of 70-77%, then 77%, of alligator gar harvest being by bow anglers, and cited biologist Dan Bennett's bow angler survey. The correct information is that 73% of alligator gar harvest was by bow anglers, in a tag-return study by research scientist, Dave Buckmeier. We apologize for the unintentional misquote.

    You are correct in that bowfishing for alligator gar is, in cases outside the spawn, a fairly inefficient method for taking these fish. Please find attached manuscript describing our research of alligator gar bowfishing tournaments on the Trinity River. Your account of effort required to harvest two alligator gar (200 hours) is within the ballpark of our observations. We have been intentional about developing working relationships with bow and rod-and-reel alligator gar anglers in Texas. We are very appreciative of their cooperation with us by providing harvested fish for scientific studies and participating in our surveys. The information transfer has been two ways and very valuable for advancing our collective knowledge bases.

    Thanks, again, for sharing your thoughts on this subject with us and for your support for conservation of this species for the enjoyment of present and future generations of anglers.

    Craig Bonds
    Inland Fisheries Region 3 Director
    Texas Parks & Wildlife Department
    11810 FM 848
    Tyler, TX 75707
    Office: 903.566.1615 ext. 202
    Cell: 903.363.3817
    Email: craig.bonds@tpwd.texas.gov

  16. #55
    Gator Gar
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    are they going to hire more Gw's to patrol the waters during this 'closed season'....no

  17. #56
    Chainsaw Willy
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe mabry View Post
    are they going to hire more Gw's to patrol the waters during this 'closed season'....no
    The warden at the ramp "Say boy...just so you know gador gar are of limits right now..."

    The boy at the ramp " yea so what, I'm killing needle noise"

  18. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by froghunter View Post
    nope snake as far as i know netting of any kind is outlawed.

    could be wrong though.
    just got the 2014 arkansas fishing guidebook it stated commercial fisherman needed a commercial license to use commercial fishing equipment but it didn,t list seasons or what type of equip. may be another guide book for that. but i think ark. has a netting season. i saw some nets out last year.

  19. #58
    Would one of you please ask Craig or Dan what the scientific justification is for considering further restrictions? By the way, these are the good guys so don't beat them up.

  20. #59
    Hoopty's Special someone
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarGuys View Post
    Would one of you please ask Craig or Dan what the scientific justification is for considering further restrictions? By the way, these are the good guys so don't beat them up.



    Good to hear from you, and I appreciate you contacting me regarding Alligator Gar research and regulations. I agree with your sentiments. The department’s work with Alligator Gar has been ongoing since before the 1-per-day conservative regulation went into effect, and has looked into exactly what you describe (researching different populations throughout the state) to be better able to tailor regulations specific to certain locations. There has been a push by our commission recently, as you are aware from reading the transcripts, to offer more protection to Alligator Gar during the spawning season. This push is not coming from TPWD biological staff. Currently, an emergency rule is being composed for commission approval that will likely go to the public hearing stage. In that case it will be important for gar anglers to either attend a local public hearing to make comment or submit comments online indicating their opinion of the regulations. I will be sure to forward this email, and your sentiments will be included with others in a summary presentation to the commission.

    I might also make note of an interpretation error of some of the data presented at the commission meeting. The harvest indicated as 77% by bow anglers from a survey I conducted was an error. The harvest by bow anglers in the Trinity was actually estimated at 73% in a study by biologist Dave Buckmeier. My survey was conducted only of bow anglers, and the referenced survey question found that 77% of bow anglers strictly bowfished for Alligator Gar and 23% had also used rod and reel to fish for Alligator Gar. It did not look at harvest by different angler types. I have attached a paper published last year looking at the harvest of Alligator Gar in Trinity River bow tournaments. I have another paper in press based on my surveys of bow anglers, but it will not be available for some time.



    Dan Bennett

  21. #60
    Gator Gar
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    "Currently, an emergency rule is being composed for commission approval that will likely go to the public hearing stage."

    I bet we dont get a chance to voice our opinion. total BS, this will be a law.


    also, whos the jack wagon that bad mouthed bowfishing? the one that took the commissioner and his son rod and reel fishing, pretty sure he made his name on bowfishing. And of course a rod and reel guide will boast about only using a rod and reel so he can get more business, thats like asking the barber if you need a hair cut.
    Last edited by joe mabry; 01-31-2014 at 02:08 AM.

  22. #61
    If we are going to protect the species tpwd should inforce a 5mph speed limit of all boats on water that is habited by alligator gar. We all know they love the top 15 inches of the water and come up for air. I can provide plenty of photo evidence of gar that were killed or injured by bass boat propellors while trying to spawn.

  23. #62
    Gator Gar
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    i love how they are like 'yea we'll discuss it' but we all know their minds are made and this will go into effect this year.

  24. #63
    Silver Carp
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe mabry View Post
    "Currently, an emergency rule is being composed for commission approval that will likely go to the public hearing stage."

    I bet we dont get a chance to voice our opinion. total BS, this will be a law.


    also, whos the jack wagon that bad mouthed bowfishing? the one that took the commissioner and his son rod and reel fishing, pretty sure he made his name on bowfishing. And of course a rod and reel guide will boast about only using a rod and reel so he can get more business, thats like asking the barber if you need a hair cut.
    Sounds like the same guy that took the "In Fisherman" crew out several years ago. The crew that got every one at TP&WD and OF&G all shook up about protecting the gator gar.

  25. #64
    Gator Gar
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    ****** nozzle just trying to keep his business going.

    Whaaatttt you cant say Do-uch-e nozzle on BFC lol

  26. #65
    Ok guys. The biologist at TPWD readily admit there is no scientific reason for this move. Time for yall to quote the mission statement of tpwd to them. Sound science is required for management decisions.

  27. #66
    Gator Gar
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    logically, sound science is required for a management decision, but these guys think we go out and shoot 7-8 footers every time. I really hope we, as a group, can come together and show that we are conservationist too.

    we also need to remember that people making these decisions will most likely troll this site.

  28. #67
    you can bet they troll forums.

  29. #68
    sorry to see yall are experiencing exactly what is going on every where....its a shame,but fact

  30. #69
    Actually, its the commission making these decisions. The folks that regularly troll this site are Craig and Dan. They have actually been out in the field and understand whats going on. TPWDs mission requires "sound science". I sincerely request that each of you that speak, ask for the sound science behind this decision.

  31. #70
    Redfish
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    Ok guys and gals, I spoke with Craig Bonds, Richard Ott and Dan Bennet last night. This whole thing is really complicated.
    There are actually two action items, so to speak, handed down to the staff, which to me is backwards. Why is
    the board handing down options, unless being pressed by others or "friends" of the commission. Usually in a board situation, the
    staff suggest proposals, based on science, not emotion or a friends whim. But, the do have this right and they are given this right by our Governor. Anyways, the commission handed down two directives to the staff and want them to presents proposals for each. One concerns Lake Falcon only, they want to increase the bag for Falcon Lake only. It will be interesting to see how they handle the increased take numbers as I'm sure we will all take vacations to South Texas for that.

    Second directive is to make a proposal to shut down the take or attempted take of gator gar during the spawn (whenever
    that is), for the rest of the state. This actually caught the staff off guard, the were not expecting this because the actual science show that we are below the sustainable harvest. I hope we can beat this one and win the former. Again the commission is going off emotion and not science. Att this point they don't even have a proposal, they look to have something concrete within the next week or two.

    At this point all we can fight for is "NO NEW CHANGES". Other than that we don't know what we're fighting against.
    Like someone mentioned earlier, if you feel like it, continue to contact Dan or Craig or whoever your region director is.
    Make intelligent comments and questions and help them come up with a proposal. Once a proposal is made, we the public,
    will be allowed to comment via TPWD Website and a handful of town hall meetings. These meetings and the comments
    on the website are all documented and given to the commission. The other conversations, while taken into consideration, are not
    really official statements. So again, I urge you to contact your congressmen, your representative, the TPW and strongly urge them
    to not make any changes. Once the proposal is out, please take the time to strongly oppose the initiative. If you plan on attending
    a town hall meeting or even the commission meeting in Austin, don't just show up, you have to take the stand and say that you
    oppose it. You have three minutes if you like, but at minimum a voiced "I oppose" is needed.

    Out motto should be "if it ain't broke, don't fix it, NO NEW REGULATIONS"

  32. #71
    You are exactly right Tony. They cant justify making management decisions without sound science. Heck there is a big poster on the wall in the TPWD building hall that says that. There is a new anti bowfishing push from CCA. Heart Of the Hills has always been anti bowfishing.

  33. #72
    Redfish
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    CCA, that explains a lot. I've hated them since the catfish days.

  34. #73
    Chainsaw Willy
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe mabry View Post
    "Currently, an emergency rule is being composed for commission approval that will likely go to the public hearing stage."

    I bet we dont get a chance to voice our opinion. total BS, this will be a law.


    also, whos the jack wagon that bad mouthed bowfishing? the one that took the commissioner and his son rod and reel fishing, pretty sure he made his name on bowfishing. And of course a rod and reel guide will boast about only using a rod and reel so he can get more business, thats like asking the barber if you need a hair cut.
    ...lol...when I see that "Jack wagon" fishing I always slowly go buy throwing a huge wake, then stop at the next bend and fish right through his hole...their is a reason he's there...naw...not really I wouldn't do that...but I will sit and see what's rolling and save it on the GPS...biotch!

  35. #74
    Gator Gar
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    If the push for new legislation really is coming from rod and reel fishermen, it would probably die down if it affected them equally. So come back with whatever the proposed "off" period for spawn is should also be off for rod and reel + the 30 days leading into and 30 days coming out of the spawn. These are the times for high feeding and highly aggressive/protective nature for GG. If it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander...

  36. #75
    Mudfish
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    Don't you love it when politicians think they know more than the scientists they employ. So who has the money that's bribing the commission for the unsound changes?

  37. #76
    I would think/hope they would include R&R in the emergency closures. That would be a good question or point to bring up at the meetings.

  38. #77
    I wouldn't ask for MORE regulation.

  39. #78
    Silver Carp
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    Read the transcript... as soon as the question of restricting take during the spawn, one commish made sure it would be for Bow anglers only.

    They cannot justify this with science, because there is no science to back them up!

  40. #79
    Mudfish
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    what is this "Heart Of the Hills" place anyway. Is it part of the TPWD?

  41. #80
    Needle Nose Gar
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    its not about facts, science, what makes sense, or any concern for the fish. Its about taking away MORE of our FREEDOM. Unfortunately even the great state of Texas isn't immune to the political corruption we see throughout our entire nation. If it were really about the fish and the powers that be truely wanted them to spawn successfully, then they would allow reservoirs to release water when it rains so that the rivers would actually flood and the gar could spawn.

    Im going to have to stay off this thread, its going to make me madder than watching the freakin news. bad for my health

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